Creating Your Own Career Opportunities

Jacki Lutz: 0:00

I should have brought a water.

Matt Fowler: 0:01

No, no, no, no, no, no. Do you want to go get one before we get started, so your mouth doesn't get all dry and you sound all hoarse and cranky. It's okay.

Jacki Lutz: 0:11

When do I ever sound hoarse or cranky?

Matt Fowler: 0:13

Always like cracky.

Jacki Lutz: 0:15

Cracky Jackie, cranky Jackie. I do have this thing, though when I do, like my public speaking things, something about the 45 minute mark, I always start coughing, and I think it's because I'm like projecting usually, you know, and if you project long enough, my voice just like Do you put a timer anywhere or just rolling?

Jacki Lutz: 0:34

No, I got a phone here. Is there any way to hold my Welcome to Auto Care On Air, a candid podcast for a curious industry? I'm Jackie Lutz, content Director at the Auto Care Association, and this is Carpool Conversations, where we collaborate on today's most relevant power skills. We're all headed in the same direction, so let's get there together. Don't get me going, it's been a long week already, okay, okay, sorry, I just snapped my lips this is how all the podcasts start, pretty much okay.

Jacki Lutz: 1:19

Take 37 I've never messed up this part, okay are we ready? I did it again. 37. I've never messed up this part. Okay, are we ready?

Jon Clements: 1:31

I did it again.

Matt Fowler: 1:32

You can't just cut that?

Jon Clements: 1:34

How long are the recording windows on?

Jacki Lutz: 1:35

these things. I'm so sorry. Yeah, really, my cameras are going to overheat. Hi everybody, Welcome to another Carpool Conversation. I am here with a familiar face, familiar voice Matt Fowler. He is the account executive at Pivotry Maybe not the account executive.

Matt Fowler: 1:50

Well, the most important one actually, but I am one of a few, but I oversee the automotive division.

Jacki Lutz: 1:55

And this is your second time on Auto Care On Air.

Matt Fowler: 2:00

Second time on a full one, and then we did the clips at Connected. You did open mic yeah.

Jacki Lutz: 2:06

So welcome back. And then I have John Clemens. He's the product manager at Experian Automotive. Welcome to your first AutoCare on Air podcast.

Jon Clements: 2:15

Thank you. Long-term listener. First-time caller.

Jacki Lutz: 2:17

There you go, and have you ever been on a podcast period?

Jon Clements: 2:21

No, this is my first one.

Jacki Lutz: 2:23

This makes me so happy. I love newbies. This is the best first podcast you can do Super casual, okay. Plus, you're sitting here with your friends, so it'll be good. We're going to talk about creating career opportunities today and it kind of worked out great to have this group, because we all one thing that we've all done, we knew to do, is to get involved in the industry to create career opportunities. So we actually all got started kind of getting involved with yang yep um, I served as the vice chair at some point.

Matt Fowler: 2:55

You just got done I just got done as chairman.

Jacki Lutz: 2:57

I'm past chair now yeah, and actually when I joined yang, john was on yang yeah, when I joined you were on, that's true, so it's like a line if you think about it, I had a long stint on yang, yeah, when I joined you around, that's true.

Matt Fowler: 3:04

So it's like a line if you think about it had a long stint on yang.

Jon Clements: 3:07

Yeah, it was fun though, um, but you know, honestly, some of my closest friends came from yang oh yeah, I mean our group chat still today, still one of my funnest group chats that I'm on the false oh yeah I like to say air. Yeah, we never really trademarked it. So yeah, it works out.

Jacki Lutz: 3:26

Yeah, it's a good group, though it's got JC Washbush in it. Joe Thomas Rukoff.

Jon Clements: 3:31

Man, a few people who've left the industry, but we still talk to them.

Jacki Lutz: 3:34

Yeah, I still talk to them. That's nice. Yeah, I think having those close relationships is one of the best things that you can do to really further your career, because those people are always looking out for you. Like I got laid off a couple of years ago and it was one of the first you know groups I went to. They were the first people to know. Like probably before my husband was like hey guys, you really need a job. They're the type of people that are going to be looking out for you.

Jon Clements: 3:56

I don't think your husband was going to help you in that department. We could have, so I don't know. No, I think it's a hundred percent. It's very important early on to get involved in whatever committee, in any organization that you start, because you know if you spend so much time, you know, during the day at work, it's important to be enjoying that time. So luckily we had Yang and we all really enjoyed it and the memories we had. So it's a great opportunity.

Matt Fowler: 4:27

I think that it just like it also gives you an opportunity to kind of get out there and see a lot more.

Matt Fowler: 4:34

I mean, we all kind of sit at home or sit at the office and kind of do the same thing day to day and sometimes it's nice to know that other people are going through the same things, not necessarily the same jobs, but at least in the same industry we're all seeing similar things and we can connect over that in a way that you know, if you just show up to work every day and you go home, you're not really going to get that opportunity to meet people outside of that small bubble when the industry is huge.

Matt Fowler: 4:58

So why not, you know, kind of get more involved? And it's not necessarily about moving companies or like getting involved in that way, but it's more about the aspect of just like just getting to see what the entire industry is doing and gives you a new perspective to bring back to different teams and be like well, actually, this, this, these guys are going through this, these guys are going through this. You know, personally, professionally, whatever that may be, and so you like you know those lines are ever getting blurred between personal and professional relationships.

Jacki Lutz: 5:24

Yeah.

Jon Clements: 5:25

I mean, even at lunch. Right, we're talking from a sales perspective, right? Different sales strategies. Right, Pivotry and Experian kind of do two different things, but it was interesting that we align in our sales practices and I'm not in sales anymore, but what Matt was talking about was exactly what the sales team in Experian Automotive is doing. So it's just interesting because you know, we're just having a discussion over lunch, but there's an open opportunity for me to go back and talk with my sales team and say, hey, I was talking with a colleague.

Jacki Lutz: 5:53

This is what they're doing. You know what can we implement or how can we help. Yeah, there's a certain kind of trust though that like you build when you're kind of in the trenches doing Yang. You know like on a steering committee, like that, when you're with somebody and you're working, you know on the industry not just in your company A lot of like competitors can come together. You know a lot of it really does.

Jacki Lutz: 6:10

It not only just helps you form like trusting relationships where you know that those people are going to be the ones who bring you opportunities, because word of mouth is still number one, word of mouth is still king.

Jacki Lutz: 6:22

So the more people that can speak for you and trust you they have their own networks. When opportunities cross their minds and they think of you and that person they're talking to, trust that person and their opinion of you. It just brings opportunities to your doorstep and it also, I think getting involved in the industry helps you see the bigger picture of where your company lives in this you know big world and how things are unfolding, having a good understanding of industry topics like sustainability, what are people doing in AI, what are people doing in EVs, you know, and just kind of having those kind of like narratives in your head and like being involved and bringing that back to your company. It'll help open a lot of doors just within your own company to just being able to see like, ok, this guy knows what he's talking about, he's very involved in the industry, people know him, he's got a huge network. Huge opportunities can come for that.

Jon Clements: 7:12

Yeah, I think we didn't even say the word networking yet, but I mean, that is such a buzzword right now, networking, especially post-COVID Right, we were all kind of locked away at our homes during COVID. We could network virtually right. Couldn't necessarily network in person, but the amount of ways we could network and can network today, could just open, stood up at my wedding. I've been over to their house, I've had dinners with these people. They're friends inside the industry and outside, which is just an awesome thing to reflect back on and say, yeah, this is the proof in the pudding for networking. But then thinking about.

Matt Fowler: 7:59

You know, it's great to have the friends and it's great to grow, all that but it also gives you an opportunity to see people in positions you may want to be in. You can start seeing people who are growing and being like hey, you know, give advice, get advice. All those fun things with networking is like outside of just creating awesome friendships, which obviously we've all done. We were all recently at a cornhole tournament together. But it's one of those things where it's just like at the same time I can ask you know, john, about what's going on over here, or like things of that nature, like do you have advice? Here's the position I'm in, here's what I'm going through, here's what I'm thinking.

Matt Fowler: 8:34

And you have these people that know your industry well enough to know that their advice is a little bit different than someone who may have just been on the sidelines that doesn't really know exactly what you do or what the goal of your industry is, because the companies all build the same industry.

Matt Fowler: 8:48

So, like if we're all building those blocks together, it just makes life that much easier and you have all those extra people to go to. And we've made so many awesome relationships, even just if we just look at what we've done with Yang and then move on to all the other networking opportunities from the different events that we all have. That really just opens all those doors. And then you take it a step further and you join a committee and then you get on the council and before you know it, you're speaking at a conference, and that's another space that you know. There's no better way to learn something than have to speak about it, and so you really have to dive in and understand a topic before you can speak on it, and it's hard and it's not always the most fun thing to do at first. But I think that speaking opportunities are another great way to open yourself up to more opportunities, because if you A can speak eloquently on it and B get up there and command a crowd, you've already done half the work to do most jobs.

Jacki Lutz: 10:07

Yeah, it kind of makes you the leader in the space when you have the stage to talk about it and public speaking is quite terrifying. But it's another thing that you know, even just like Yang and I didn't mean for this to be a Yang commercial, but you know they have their five for fives.

Jon Clements: 10:51

It's a practice tool right. Raise your hand, go speak on something for five minutes with about is just going to put you in a better light with your friends, your family, your colleagues. So, yeah, I mean, those five for fives at Yang were fantastic to bring people out of their shell and kind of give them the opportunity to shine on stage and things like this, where this is the first podcast I've ever done, but it's comfortable and it's something that I can learn from.

Matt Fowler: 11:12

So even people in older generations like you can learn still.

Jon Clements: 11:15

Tell you what the grays are coming in thick yes.

Jacki Lutz: 11:19

Oh, we didn't mention. Matt is celebrating his 12th 25th birthday.

Matt Fowler: 11:26

I'm crushing it basically, which I think I've gotten four years older since the last time I was on the mic, so that's great, or, excuse me, four years younger that makes sense Even better. More podcasts, right. Wow, maybe bad words at this point. That's fantastic.

Jacki Lutz: 11:44

Well, I must be doing real good.

Matt Fowler: 11:48

Which I mean.

Jacki Lutz: 11:48

That's a career opportunity in itself.

Jacki Lutz: 11:52

But doing things like this, though, that is a really good example, and I always you know I'm I fly this flag a lot, but you know, having an online presence is very, very similar you can have.

Jacki Lutz: 12:00

You can do the same thing that people do on a stage in front of 500 people. You can do in front of 10,000 people on LinkedIn, you know, and still be a thought leader. Still, you know, really think about, like the type of rhetoric or the type of person that you want to be online, really do that kind of personal branding work, but then, like, you can really make a great name for yourself and expand your network wildly. So, like, the more people that know you and the more people that trust you because they see your content and they see that you're a leader in your field and you know what you're talking about opportunities come up to people all the time and the more people that know your name and know what you're good at and know what you want to do, your name will be thought of, you know, in those situations for different opportunities.

Jon Clements: 12:43

Yeah, linkedin has really exploded the ability for introverted individuals to be able to find their voice, and I mean it's an unbelievable opportunity engine nowadays and it's been fantastic just to be able to see everyone that you know in the industry and see where they're going or what they're doing or they're. You know everything that they're crushing out there to opportunities that exist, speaking right or jobs or careers, or you know side quests, as I like to call them.

Jacki Lutz: 13:10

Yeah, exactly, careers, or you know side quests, as I like to call them. Yeah, exactly, and it's like you know. Think about when you see people on LinkedIn, what really helps build the trust to like, okay, yeah, I know who this person is on LinkedIn. I see them put out content, I know what they're about. But then maybe you meet them at a networking event. You actually meet them in person and you realize they're the same person online that they are offline. You already will feel like you know that person. You're already going to have established trust with that person to a certain extent. It can really do a lot of great things. So, like, that's always my advice to people If you want to find more career opportunities, you're feeling stuck or something like that, put yourself out there a little bit because you just plus like kind of like what you said, Matt. You never, you might not even know what you want yet, but if you meet somebody who's kind of in that field, it might click in your head a little bit about what kind of opportunities you're looking for.

Matt Fowler: 13:55

You get so much more exposure not only you know the exposure that you're getting, like your name's out there, you're all of these things but then just being involved, If you're posting, then you're probably reading and you're reading the comments and you're growing and you're getting more exposed to things that you may not have in the past too, and someone may see it, and I don't know how many posts we have where all of a sudden, there's this dialogue that's happening between people completely other sides of the country but you're able to kind of talk because it's like oh, this is a topic I was just thinking about. What did you do here, what did you do there? And kind of now you're not only showing yourself that you're interested in the topic, but you're showing why you're supposed to be a trusted person in that topic of whatever it happens to be. And I think that that is something that LinkedIn gives people a lot more of a platform for than I think that you would ever be able to do in the past 100% yeah.

Matt Fowler: 14:48

And then you throw videos out there and you get people going and it's just, it's an open dialogue and I think that a lot of people sometimes can treat it like it's a place to just throw information, but it's a really a good place to grab information as well, and it's in that aspect of you can create dialogues, and when you can create dialogue, then you can really advance your expertise and showcase it as well, which I think is really an interesting thing. On LinkedIn, I don't know.

Jon Clements: 15:14

I love LinkedIn. It's awesome. I mean, this topic came from LinkedIn, right? We were all sitting around deciding what we wanted to really talk about and you know it was like, hey, let's throw a poll out to LinkedIn and see what the people who listen to this podcast want to learn. And we were surprised by the results, but super happy about it.

Jacki Lutz: 15:33

Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I didn't mention that we put out a poll. I think we had almost 50 votes on it, and this was the. There was three that were pretty high. Managing Up was another one that was pretty big, and then Managing Change, I think, was the other one that was pretty big. So we'll have to make sure we hit those topics too. But yeah, yeah, linkedin's an amazing tool.

Matt Fowler: 16:07

And I think something that kind of grounds a lot of the stuff that we're talking about and it's actually one of the values of the Auto Care Association career was that, you know, I showed up to work every day, I did my job, I waited till the boss left and then I left.

Matt Fowler: 16:19

That was like that was. The way to prove that you were working hard was to leave after your boss. That was the only way to prove it. Get there before them and leave after them, which is still a great thing to do.

Matt Fowler: 16:27

Don't get me wrong you do get noticed, especially if you have the, if you're lucky enough to get to go to go into an office. I know that it's potentially a little taboo for some people, but I think that I look at it as if you're lucky enough to go into an office. Go into an office, get to see people, even if it's only a couple of days a week, just to make sure you know. If you're not in the room where the decisions are being made, you can't help make them. Yeah, which kind of leads to that other point of if you're in the room, there's a reason for it and don't question yourself.

Matt Fowler: 16:58

You know, be confident, stand up, have something to say. I mean, obviously, be educated on whatever you're there for, but don't be afraid to speak up and say things, because that's why you're there. Very rarely are you ever invited into a room where you're expected to just sit there. Your opinion is valued and you have to value your own opinion before. You can obviously make sure that other people value it, but that's definitely something that that's advice that I would definitely give is you know, go into the office if you can and if you're in the room, act like it. You know you deserve to be there, you're supposed to be there. It's not a fluke. You know a lot of people have the uh I'm losing the name of it imposter syndrome, and that that's the biggest killer of career opportunities is imposter syndrome syndrome, you know, and one token it does make you work harder, but on the flip side, it makes you question whether you belong there, and you you always do.

Jacki Lutz: 17:51

If you're there, you're supposed to be there it's imposter syndrome so funny because I think it's almost like if you're in a meeting and you feel like an imposter there. One of the biggest aha moments I've ever had in my career is when I actually realized that no one actually knows what they're doing. And if they do, they're kind of almost like ancient like. If you're not, if you're not learning and challenging yourself enough to be like, okay, I'm, should I even be here? Then, like you kind of you need to check yourself a little bit and be like am I still learning and growing or have I just been in the same role forever and we've been doing the same thing, the same forever? Like there's just too much technology going on, too much AI happening, too much stuff.

Jacki Lutz: 18:35

That if you are, I promise you, everyone in that room has questions. Everyone in that room wonders if we could be doing something better or different. So, like imposter syndrome. I know people have it and struggle with it, but these days I feel like the people that you would think know the most people have been in the role for, or been in the industry for 40 years. They have just as many questions these days as, as people coming in, you know they might have more answers as far as the way the industry is or why it is the way it is, a lot of those kinds of really important context. You know to the industry that you need to ask questions to understand.

Jon Clements: 19:11

But as for what to do next, that you need to ask questions to understand. But as for what to do, who contradicts everything? Because usually the truth lies between the two, and people will always go with what's safe and honest and careful. And that fifth person, or that person who's different, is usually the one who challenges the status quo, and that's where you bring the opportunity in.

Jacki Lutz: 19:47

Right, yeah, there are so many people like that in this industry that I don't like the words devil's advocate, but that's what they are. It's like you want to know their opinion but you also don't, because you know it's not going to be yours and you're going to have to explain things. But they do. They well, round the whole conversation and make sure that you're seeing it from every angle.

Matt Fowler: 20:04

When asking those questions sometimes. Sometimes it feels and maybe this just goes back to like schoolyard days, right, where, when you're asking questions, that's what you have no idea, what you don't know at the time, right when you're in these rooms. A lot of times the questions you ask show that you do know what you're talking about, because you're like, wait, if this, then this, why not this? Obviously that's really ambiguous, but nonetheless, if you have an understanding of the topic, asking questions showcases that Like that's what makes you stand out is if you say, hey, wait, let's take a step back. Why this and that's something, that a way you can do it as well.

Matt Fowler: 21:33

That doesn't make you seem as though you're just being devil's advocate, which is also a semi-dangerous places to be at times, because you don't want to always be the guy who's disagreeing, although some would argue there are people that are very awesome at that, but which would be the other advice I would give if you're looking for an opportunity in careers is, you know, be awesome at something when you first get a job, especially even if it's just like you have the most organized calendar, great. Be awesome at something so that you're the person that someone comes to be, the person that they go to for something and then continue to expand from there. Sometimes it's easy to look at the role. It's like these huge things have to happen, you have to make these huge splashes. Sometimes it's like, no, just master one thing and then move on and slowly expand from there.

Jacki Lutz: 22:21

Um, Do you guys ever because we're kind of at the same, you know spot in our careers a lot, you know we're similar in age, similar, similar. Do you guys ever think about getting niche or more niche than you are today?

Jon Clements: 22:39

I would say that's been kind of I wouldn't say it's a problem. I think we talked about this earlier. It was like I wouldn't say it's a problem. I think we talked about this earlier. It was like I came from. I'm a Northwood university graduate. I grew up in the automotive aftermarket industry. This is the only industry I've ever known and loved and I talked to my boss a couple of years ago and it was like hey, I was thinking about getting my master's.

Jacki Lutz: 23:04

And his advice was whatever you do, don't get your master's in this.

Jon Clements: 23:05

Like you've kind of pigeonholed, that was something that's to not get too niche was like hey, you're really good at what you do and you're hyper focused on this industry, but the important thing is, is there's opportunities outside of just this? So, you can become an expert in this, but make sure that you're aware that there's a bigger evolution out there and things could go different ways.

Jacki Lutz: 23:23

So he was saying like get an MBA but don't get it in the automotive aftermarket, like an automotive aftermarket MBA, yeah, completely.

Jon Clements: 23:29

Yeah, he's like go do it in like engineer, go somewhere completely different just so that you can learn different concepts of how to learn Right. It was really interesting Cause again, I was going to go back to Northwood at the time and get my MBA at Northwood. It's like no knock to Northwood by any means. Love the university. But that opened my eyes to like maybe I am being too hyper focused on what I do. And now my new role I kind of work with the aftermarket and with the OEM space, so I do have to be a little bit more flexible than I was. So it's good advice.

Jacki Lutz: 23:59

It's interesting, though, because there's the argument that the more niche you are, there's a need for whatever your niche is, Hopefully that would be a huge goal to think about before you get too niche. But you'll get paid more if you have a specialization than if you're more of like a jack of all trades or something like that. But I mean, I can see both, because jack of all trades there's more opportunities, less opportunities if you're niche, but one is like a jackpot. One is, you know, comfortable.

Matt Fowler: 24:28

But I think that it's OK to be. You can kind of be both. I mean, if you even if you just look at, like the three of us and the way that we came up in the industry, we all came up in very different ways. I came in from the tech space. I was never going to be in the industry. We all came up in very different ways. I came in from the tech space. I was never going to be in the aftermarket. I went to school at Central Michigan for marketing and ended up working for a tech company that brought 360 imaging over, got into the aftermarket.

Matt Fowler: 24:54

I've been here for 15 years. You know I've had some of the outside, I've got some of the inside and so like, to some degree, I had a bunch of the stuff from the outside that I'm bringing into the industry, where the way that John's looking at it is he's got all the stuff that he's got from the inside that can now expand to the outside. So it's like there's a million different ways to slice it. But I think that becoming niche is important, like you need to be the best or an expert or something. It's is something right, but don't get so pigeonholed that there's no backup plan. There's no way to expand out of it. Because if you get so into something, it's like, well, where do I go next? And sometimes it's nice because the next is just a natural progression of where you were, and sometimes it's like, oh, that's cool, let's try it. I mean, even within companies, I've watched people move from sales to ops and ops to marketing and, just like you know, good companies will allow you to grow within them in the way that makes sense for you. Because, especially when you're early in your career, you know we're all lucky enough to be in our late 20s into early 30s and so obviously we're extremely set up in ours. But but, like when we're all first starting out, you kind of don't know what you don't know yet. Yeah, like I didn't know I was going to be in the account space and in sales I was going to be, I wanted to lay out magazines, whoa, which was weird because they didn't exist when I was in college. But, um, that was kind of the space that I mean, and and it just one thing leads to another and you realize, oh, I have a passion for this, or I have a passion for these people, you know, and that's kind of the growth that kind of starts happening when you open those doors.

Matt Fowler: 26:34

I don't know how I got on this tangent from niches, but no, it makes sense it does. Being in the niches is cool and it's got. You need to be, have some niche to you. But being open-minded about what else where else can that information be useful I think is probably the path that you were being given. Was like you have that information, like if you get a master's degree in something that you're already so ingrained in that's not really going to pull you out of your comfort zone to help you grow, as much as going into something that's maybe a little bit to the side, like not directly in the exact thing that you already have such a huge base for where you could like expand yourself out, and now you can bring a little of this there, a little of that there, and I don't know, that's just my soapbox moment. You're welcome.

Jon Clements: 27:23

You're very welcome. The opportunities are everywhere, right. Even if you do kind of get to your niche, right, the opportunities are everywhere all times. So it's really just being aware of them, right, being able to see them.

Jacki Lutz: 27:35

I think too, as you I mean Matt wouldn't know this just being so, such a fresh chicken out of college, Fresh chicken, Is that a thing? Is that what I was trying to say? Spring chicken, spring chicken.

Jon Clements: 27:46

Don't you own chickens?

Jacki Lutz: 27:48

I do yeah, I mean my, my mother-in-law, my neighbor does sure anyway. Um what did I say? Fresh chicken? Yeah, that's stupid. Um what was I saying though?

Jacki Lutz: 28:02

I hope that makes the cut I'm not gonna say, oh, as you. So as you kind of get more seasoned in your career that's what I'm gonna say for me um, you do start to realize a little bit more of what you you might not like. I don't know where I want to end up. I have no idea where my career is headed, but I know what I don't like at this point. Um, so I do feel like that you know, there is like something in the in this uh era, what are we q2 kind of I'm probably rounding into q3 shortly of my career and you kind of like know what you don't want, but you know if you really want to grow, you know if you want to try to start figuring out what you do want, because it's not always clear to everybody.

Jacki Lutz: 28:45

I think the more you put yourself out there, do some of this stuff and really make sure you're leaning into your career and getting to know the industry and getting to know all this kind of stuff and really becoming like a thought leader in your field, you get more opportunities. And the more you just take, take them, even if they're kind of like out of left field. You know like I remember when I was asked to like write a column for, like a monthly column for, one of our industry publications. I took it, but I was like that was out of left field, you know. Or just like you know somebody asks you to come speak about something that they think you're good at, and saying yes to something like that, even though it's not something at all that was on your radar, and just like, as opportunities come in, saying yes to some of them and I think what's helped me, I think in my journey, is, when I say yes to these things, to talk about that journey, to put that out there and be like so I did this thing Otherwise, like if you don't talk about it, it might as well not have happened. Like no one knows you did it. No one knows you did that scary thing and did five for five, you know, and you got up in front of your peers and talked for five minutes. Nobody knows that you faced that fear and that you did a good job.

Jacki Lutz: 29:55

Like it was what you know, like I think a huge part of it too is like you have to kind of lean into your own career and your own, make sure that you're really taking these opportunities with two hands and it's not just doing the opportunity, but it's also letting it live on by talking about it and taking that extra step, because that'll just keep bringing more opportunities too. If you really liked speaking, you're like I would love to do more of that. But how do you get those opportunities right? Well, you need to show people you speaking in front of a crowd. Do that on LinkedIn, like. Show that photo of you speaking in front of a crowd so people can see you in that light and then next time they, you know, need a speaker for something you actually come to mind. It's a huge part of it.

Jon Clements: 30:37

Yeah, I mean we got. You got to take the risks right. If you're going to get rewards, the risks are going to be taken. So you got to be willing to take them. And you know, promote yourself right. Opportunities are always going to come with risks, you know you do the left sheet of the paper, right sheet of the paper right, pros and cons, swot analysis. However you want to do it right, but taking the risk tend to always yield the best rewards.

Matt Fowler: 31:01

Yeah, I mean, I remember it was actually very recently I got this advice from somebody. So clearly I'm still learning. But you know, one of the things that I used to do, I've been trying to catch myself at it more. It's like when you introduce yourself in a room, it's okay to talk about some of the things that you're proud of that you've accomplished. Like this is what I do. This is like here are the passionate things I have.

Matt Fowler: 31:21

And you know I used to just basically just be like you know, I'm just, I'm just the sales guy, I'm just gonna be over here doing my thing and it's like no, no, like here are the things. Here's the reason I'm in the room, like letting people know. And you know, a colleague of mine gave me advice and she was just like you can be humble about that and obviously everything should come with a bit of humility, but just the extent of like you don't have to hide it, you don't have to be, because I was always taught as a salesperson, you know, always be the dumbest person in the room, which has never been a huge trouble for me, and you know.

Jacki Lutz: 31:57

Well, you're so young though.

Matt Fowler: 31:58

You know that's really what does it. You know that's really what does it. You know, once I'm your age, I feel like I'll really just blossom into the human that I'm supposed to be.

Jacki Lutz: 32:06

I don't love this joke anymore.

Matt Fowler: 32:08

You're running it, yeah, but yeah, I just think that it's one of those things where that's the other flip side of it and I think that you brought that up really well, jackie. Is that like? So? First you have to say yes, be willing to try hard things. You know, inevitably I'm going to let you know you will fail. You are not going to succeed at everything you've done. I know we've all failed. I've watched Jackie fail many times.

Matt Fowler: 32:36

This podcast, take four, take four you should have seen us setting the room up, but it's just one of those things like it's not always going to go perfectly, but half the time. Those are the stories that let you talk about how you learn to do it better. If you do it great out of the gate, it's kind of like and Everything should be. You know, always be willing to step outside your comfort zone. You know so many people I know have taken weird offshoot job opportunities that are like well, you have to, you know, work in London for six months because we need you on this project. But then you'll come back and it's like should I? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would probably do that if I were you Not. A lot of people get those opportunities and if people are asking you again, it's one of those things don't feel like an imposter, like don't get in your own way. If they're asking you to do these things, they're asking you to be in the room and they're asking you to step up and to do this.

Matt Fowler: 33:32

That's somebody, immediately, that believes in you and don't waste that it's really easy to do because if you do there's a really good chance they're not going to ask you the second time or the third time. You know, the more you say no again. You definitely don't say yes to everything. That's a bit much. But you know, if you say no to too many opportunities, people will stop giving them to you Because you know why does this person? If they're not going to try, then why would I keep putting my energy into them?

Jacki Lutz: 34:00

Yeah.

Matt Fowler: 34:00

And I think that that's something that can get in people's way sometimes.

Jacki Lutz: 34:05

Yeah, the way I was always taught is don't be the wallflower in the meeting Because, like, if you go the whole meeting and don't say a word and you just smile and you're nodding along to whatever anyone's saying and you don't have a single question, you don't have a single you know point that you need to be reiterated, or you don't want to reiterate a point or something like that, you made no impression. It was a complete opportunity that was lost, you know. Just because you know you didn't have the confidence to speak up when you needed to.

Jacki Lutz: 34:33

So always say something in every meeting, even if it's just hey, can you repeat that Show that you're listening and paying attention and that it's worth having you in the room?

Matt Fowler: 34:44

That's the hardest thing is to make sure that you and yes, there is a, there's always a line between confident and cocky. You do have to be careful, but that's where asking questions is always kind of my go to for meetings. Even if you think you know the answer, sometimes it's better to let someone else tell you the answer. Then it reiterates what you were saying without you A, leading them toward that answer, and B now you're like okay, wait, no, I do know what I'm talking about and that'll give you the confidence to kind of move on and potentially give input next time, as opposed to only asking questions. I think the questions are the best thing you could do in any situation.

Jon Clements: 35:25

Yeah, I mean, that's the best advice I ever got was ask right, Ask the question, no dumb questions. Right. When I started early in my career, you like to believe it, right. But I mean when you're younger in your career, right, that's what opens opportunities is when you're just asking questions and constantly cause. That's where you learn right. You enjoy the concept of understanding and you're never going to get that without asking people who may have the question, or, if they don't have the answer, they may know who would right. And now you've got an introduction and now you're just networking, naturally, yeah.

Matt Fowler: 35:54

And if someone asks you a question and you don't know the answer, mistake made. Don't make up the answer, I'm going to tell you. You, that does not always work, I don't care how confidently you say it, sometimes you are still wrong. And so, you know, just be able to say, let me get that for you, like, let me get the answer. I know the person who's going to know the answer to that is just as powerful as knowing the answer I can get you. The answer is just as good as not just as good.

Matt Fowler: 36:24

Well, in some cases it's even better, because it's like I'm going to go to the expert and confirm that this is the exact answer you're looking for. And that's something that, again, sometimes it's like oh, they asked me a question, I have to answer it. You don't, you definitely do not. You can say I can get you that information and again, having those quick moments on your feet where you can stand up and, you know, make an impression in the room. Then, all of a sudden, the next meeting, they're like oh, you know, john needs to be in that meeting. He asked some questions last time that really helped us to get to the answer we needed. Or, you know, versus. I think John's taking the notes because he hasn't spoken the whole time and there's a recorder that does that these days.

Jon Clements: 37:02

Yeah, I was thinking my AI bot is doing this recording I haven't read a note in a very long time.

Jon Clements: 37:07

I think that'll be the biggest. I mean, you're in sales. I think the biggest concept that I always think, even with this whole digital age that we're headed towards, with AI and bots recording our sessions and giving us notes, is like people still buy from people and people still buy from people that they trust and you can take, buy and you can swap out, buy with listen, right, with this digital age, it's going to be important to have the knowledge, because you're going to constantly be bombarded with potential exaggerations of the truth, right. So making sure you're accurate and factual with your facts is so key, because that's going to bring an opportunity for people to trust you more.

Jacki Lutz: 37:47

And what are the roles of mentors these days? I feel like a lot of careers have changed. You know like it's hard because, like I've done a couple of podcasts on mentors and they've all been great, but even in my own life, I still struggle with the idea of a mentor because I'm like I don't know. You know, I think I have a lot of mentors in a way, and a lot of them are my friends and my peers, and that's something that we talked about in our in our open mic. Um, but, like I know it's, it's important to have mentors. I think they can bring you opportunities.

Jon Clements: 38:18

I mean growing up as a male in my generation I get to use those words. You know, I think it was the last generation of like, hey, you don't need help, hey, you just do. You know hard work. You know input equals output, right? So you know, my upbringing was just like you go do it and get it done yourself. So I really didn't believe early on that I needed a mentor. Right, I was just going to hit the ground running.

Jon Clements: 38:47

And, to Matt's earlier point, my biggest downfall in my early career was that I didn't need anyone. I was going to prove myself for myself to myself and I didn't need anyone. And I, you know, ran through my first career guns a blazing, right, it was super fast. And what ended up happening was I started making calculated risks or calculated opportunities and making mistakes. I didn't lean on anyone for expertise and it was really obvious very fast that I burnt myself out. Right, I wish I had somebody there, because at the end I did. Someone came in and kind of said hey, this is what's called burnout, welcome. You should have talked to us because you're showing the signs of someone who's burnt out. But I'd already kind of severed ties or burned some bridges and it was like I wish I had used a mentor early on, and now I see that you don't need them for everything necessarily, but you definitely want somebody there to help out and help answer complex questions that you just don't have the answers to.

Matt Fowler: 39:41

So the and Jackie this is. I mean, we did talk about this a little bit when we had our breakouts before. It was basically, you know, career paths are not nearly as linear as they once were. It used to be this, then you do this, then you do this, then you do this.

Matt Fowler: 39:55

I don't know anybody in our generation who's doing the, doing it the same way, consistently, and so having a mentor is it's a guide, it's someone that you can go to to ask the hard questions of you know what happened when? You know when you were in a situation like this, and like having someone to bounce that information off, is how I think of a mentor. And that's where, like you said, like I think of my peers as some of my mentors, of people who are in similar situations. I'm like how did you handle that? Because I, like you, know the people that I respect and the people that I really enjoy, and that's the people that I look up to. It's less of looking up to a particular career path and more of being like finding people that you can surround yourself with. Even you know, we're lucky enough, obviously, because we've been so involved, we have access to so many people, but knowing when to say, hey, how did you do this? And having some people and not everybody has time to be a mentor.

Matt Fowler: 40:51

That's why it's easier sometimes to just ask questions to different people and see how they tackle those things, because you know it's not like mentors, are these, you know, gurus anymore. That here's how I did it. Let me lay it out for you. We're going to be good.

Matt Fowler: 41:06

It's like, honestly, this job may not even exist in the capacity that it exists today in five years, let alone 10. So it's like being able to pivot, but also having people that you can look up to, which kind of takes it a little bit out of that. That, like, the mentor has to be the guy I want his job, so he should be my mentor. It's more like I want to be like that person, so that person should be my mentor. It's, it's a, it's a character thing, I think, a lot more than it's a position thing. But always be willing to take the help. Like, if you're lucky enough to be in a company that offers a mentorship program, you join the yang mentorshiporship Program, shameless plug and you have access to these people and this information. Use it. I mean, don't squander that opportunity by any stretch of the imagination, but also know that everything's going to have to be a little bit about you, like your path isn't exactly like theirs and it's not going to be.

Matt Fowler: 42:02

I have news. We've all thought we were going to be doing something very different at one point in our lives and we've all looked up to people and we've all used those people in our networks, albeit you know, older mentors, peer mentors, all of those things. But you know, I think that you should look for help wherever you can get it. I don't know that it has to always have this like this is my mentor I I don't know that it has to always have this like this is my mentor. I only talk to this person about my career path and they're the one who are going to help me. Yeah, I don't think that that's the path anymore.

Jacki Lutz: 42:28

Personally, so, just to wrap this up, I usually like to just go around the room and think of you know, usually humans have the capacity to probably take away one really important thing. So what do we each hope? That?

Jon Clements: 42:42

people walk away with today. I guess I can start my. One thing would probably take the risk. You know the risk reward factor is prevalent in any opportunity you're going to take. But you got to take the risk because usually what's over the hill or what's around the next bend tends to always be something for the better in the long term. So I would say, take the risk, that's a good one. I would say, if you something for the better in the long term, so I would say, take the risk, that's a good one.

Matt Fowler: 43:05

I would say if you're in the room, you belong there. I think that that is something that is a hard lesson to learn At least it was for me and if you're being invited into the room or into the podcast or onto the stage, take the risk, take the opportunity, but also remember you belong there, like you're supposed to be there. It may not go perfectly, but you're going to learn, the people around you are going to learn. It's going to be a growth opportunity for potentially, not even just you, but the people around you, and I think that that is always going to be worth it. So just remember that you know you're there for a reason. Make the best of it.

Jacki Lutz: 43:38

Yeah, yeah, and I think mine it's kind of all encompassing, I think, but really just the idea and the concept of taking your career with both hands and anything that you can control. You should like putting yourself out there, like taking, saying yes to scary opportunities and things like that. Like you don't always get a lot of opportunities like that, so you know, take advantage of them and then talk about them. Once you do them, Make sure people know that you did that thing and make sure that it's you know, all working together for the good and in your favor.

Jacki Lutz: 44:08

Awesome. Thank you guys, Well thank you for this opportunity.

Matt Fowler: 44:11

I'm really glad I said yes and.

Jon Clements: 44:13

I know I belong here. I really hope I get invited back. I mean, yeah, we got to get you on like two or three more times now.

Jacki Lutz: 44:19

Yeah, more times now.

Jon Clements: 44:19

Yeah, this is spawning my podcast journey. Yes, you nailed it.

Jacki Lutz: 44:24

Look at that.

Matt Fowler: 44:25

So excited, crushed it. Yeah, you did belong here.

Jacki Lutz: 44:29

I did, you weren't a wallflower.

Matt Fowler: 44:30

I'm in the room. You were not a wallflower, not a risk that I think we had anybody had thought was going to be the case.

Jon Clements: 44:38

Well, thank you guys, thank you.

Jacki Lutz: 44:40

Thanks. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of Auto Care On Air. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast so that you never miss an episode, and don't forget to leave us a rating and review. It helps others discover our show. Auto Care On Air is proud to be a production of the Auto Care Association, dedicated to advancing the auto care industry and supporting professionals like you. To learn more about the association and its initiatives, visit AutoCareorg.